Vegan Forum

A cow needs to be milked in order to live why don't you drink it?

KingFisher9 wrote:A cow needs to be milked in order to live why don't you drink it?

Because calf need that milk.

Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

The same milk is not needed by the humans, so it certainly can be given to the calf

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

The same milk is not needed by the humans, so it certainly can be given to the calf

Humans don't need cloth or cars or the internet or forums. Lets give that away to animals as well.

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

The same milk is not needed by the humans, so it certainly can be given to the calf

Humans don't need cloth or cars or the internet or forums. Lets give that away to animals as well.

You start first

But seriously, what is corelation between leaving cow their own children and giving animals forums and Internet?

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

The same milk is not needed by the humans, so it certainly can be given to the calf

Humans don't need cloth or cars or the internet or forums. Lets give that away to animals as well.

You start first

But seriously, what is corelation between leaving cow their own children and giving animals forums and Internet?

Well, you said that the reason you don't drink milk is because the humans don't need it, but there are a lot of things that humans don't need. Including the internet and computers. So if you are going to give up milk because you don't need it why don't you give up everything else that you don't need?

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:But seriously, what is corelation between leaving cow their own children and giving animals forums and Internet?

Well, you said that the reason you don't drink milk is because the humans don't need it, but there are a lot of things that humans don't need. Including the internet and computers. So if you are going to give up milk because you don't need it why don't you give up everything else that you don't need?

It's because cow need her children to drink that milk much more than Internet and forums.

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:But seriously, what is corelation between leaving cow their own children and giving animals forums and Internet?

Well, you said that the reason you don't drink milk is because the humans don't need it, but there are a lot of things that humans don't need. Including the internet and computers. So if you are going to give up milk because you don't need it why don't you give up everything else that you don't need?

It's because cow need her children to drink that milk much more than Internet and forums.

This is where I diagree because like I said earlier the milk industry would not let a calf starve to death.

KingFisher9 wrote:[skip]
This is where I diagree because like I said earlier the milk industry would not let a calf starve to death.

But they will kill almost all male calfs as soon as they have enough weight and by buying meat you support those killings.

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:[skip]
This is where I diagree because like I said earlier the milk industry would not let a calf starve to death.

But they will kill almost all male calfs as soon as they have enough weight and by buying meat you support those killings.

I thought we were talking about milk?

KingFisher9 wrote:

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:[skip]
This is where I diagree because like I said earlier the milk industry would not let a calf starve to death.

But they will kill almost all male calfs as soon as they have enough weight and by buying meat you support those killings.

I thought we were talking about milk?

Yes, about why we don't drink it. And it's why we don't drink it, to not support cruel industries.

This reply is a bit long but please read the whole thing. It tells you a lot about milk and dairy. These are the reasons I don't drink or eat it. I hope it helps you understand that humans are not meant to drink cow’s milk for health reasons and for ethical reasons.

The dairy industry actually supports the veal industry. Most of the female calves are now going to be slaves to the dairy industry and some may be used for veal. As for the males they are used for veal since they have no need for them in the dairy industry. From the day they are born they are kept chained and in tiny quarters so they will have minimum movement. At six weeks of age they are taken to the slaughterhouse so they can become a someones meal.

Cow’s milk can lead to many health problems. First of all there is a huge difference in Human milk and in cow’s milk. Human milk is only 5%-7% protein and cow’s milk in 15 percent% protein. Casein is the main type of protein found in cow’s milk. It has 20 times more casein than human milk does; this makes the protein from cow’s milk almost impossible to assimilate.

Animal products and other sources of high protein are very acidic, and the blood stream must balance this acidic condition by absorbing alkaline minerals such as calcium from the bone structure. Therefore as your body is trying to assimilate the protein in the cow’s milk it is actually pulling calcium out of your bones to do this. Many people believe that cow’s the best way to get calcium. This is not true. The best way to add calcium to your diet is to eat more fresh green vegetables. Cow's milk is high in calcium; the problem is that it is in a form that cannot be assimilated very well by humans.

Allergies are another problem. When this protein cannot be properly broken down, it weakens the immune system, causing allergies and many other problems. Symptoms of this allergic reaction to cow's milk in infants can include asthma, nasal congestion, skin rash, chest infections, irritability and fatigue.

Another serious problem caused by consumption of cow's milk is iron-deficiency anemia 15 to 20 percent of children under age 2 in the U.S. suffer from iron-deficiency anemia. Cow's milk contributes to this condition in two ways. First cow's milk is extremely low in iron, containing less than 1 milligram of iron per quart. It is estimated that a 1-year-old would need to drink 24 quarts of cow's milk a day to meet his iron requirements, which would be impossible. Infants may drink from one to two quarts of cow's milk a day, which satisfies their hunger to the point that they do no have the appetite to consume enough of other foods that do have a high iron content. The second way that cow's milk leads to iron-deficiency anemia in many infants is a form of gastrointestinal bleeding caused by increased mucus and diarrhea associated with dairy consumption. The diarrhea impairs the infant's ability to retain nutrients from his feedings. In addition, the changes produced in the gastrointestinal tract by the allergic reaction result in seepage of the child's own blood into the gut. This loss of plasma and red cells leads to a lowering of the infant's blood protein level and to the development of anemia."

The mucus created by dairy products causes other problems as well. It is well known that dairy products cause excessive mucus in the lungs, sinuses and intestines. This excess mucus in the breathing passages contributes to many respiratory problems and that mucus hardens to form a coating on the inner wall of the intestines that leads to poor absorption of nutrients, which can cause chronic fatigue. This mucus also causes constipation, which can lead to many other problems.

These are just some of the health and ethical issues associated with milk/dairy. Just a little online research can teach you a lot. Look it up you may be surprised.

Read my signature.

Genesis 1:29-31 genetics? When man or beast is killed, there's war in the 'meat'. A mother, perhaps, gives her milk freely to the child, otherwise there is vengence (uncomfortable chemistry) in it. The energy on it or around it is not peace. I drink myself to death. I'm not a cow. Vegan is paradise...unless you're around the wolf. Ppppppppppppp

mredthomas wrote:Genesis 1:29-31 genetics? When man or beast is killed, there's war in the 'meat'. A mother, perhaps, gives her milk freely to the child, otherwise there is vengence (uncomfortable chemistry) in it. The energy on it or around it is not peace. I drink myself to death. I'm not a cow. Vegan is paradise...unless you're around the wolf. Ppppppppppppp

Hehe!
Genesis ?

Exodus...Isaiah 46:10...Victory of the Lamb

I realize that this question was answered by a few people already, but I thought that I would add an interesting fact for those who are still curious about why one would choose not to consume cow's milk. I have been taking psychology and human development courses, as I am very interested in those subjects, and I was reading recently that feeding babies with cow's milk can actually contribute to SIDS. The reason being is that cow's milk is harder to digest than human milk is, and this causes the infant to be more tired and sleep more deeply than would an infant that is fed human milk. Deep sleep is strongly connected to SIDS, and research is finding that babies are much, much, better off being fed human milk, as nature intended them to. That is just an extra fact, for anyone who is interested.

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

In most cases, the calf is taken from the mother and slaughtered to make veal, and humans consume the mother's milk that was to be for her calf. I do not drink milk that was not produced for me. That is stealing, and I find it very cruel. As for cheese, I do not consume it for dairy reasons and the fact that it contains rennet. It would be hypocritical to not eat flesh but to eat part of a calf's stomach, not to mention it is cruel and ing.

Wow I didn't know about SIDS.
lunarflowermaiden, can you post some sources?

That information was taken from what I have read in a book called "The Developing Person" by Kathleen Berger, but here are some sources that have related information:

http://www.pennhealth.com/health_info/p ... 000115.htm
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020600.asp
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/36/1728_78550.htm
http://www.babyreference.com/InfantDeaths.htm
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/formula.asp

I don't agree. Why shouldn't we drink milk or cheese? They are some very healthy aliments, rich in Calcium. If people consume them for a few thousand years, and there wasn't any loss in cow numbers, I think that this shouldn't be a problem for anyone!

rac_box wrote:I don't agree. Why shouldn't we drink milk or cheese? They are some very healthy aliments, rich in Calcium. If people consume them for a few thousand years, and there wasn't any loss in cow numbers, I think that this shouldn't be a problem for anyone!

Don't assume that milk and cheese are as healthy as they are made out to be. They both contain hormones that are fed to cows. These hormones are thought to be the cause of 11 year-old girls developing much earlier than they normally would. I look at it even beyond a health aspect, though. I don't consume a cow's milk, or any other animal's milk, because it is not mine. By purchasing milk and cheese, veal factories are also being supported. That is just something that I want no part of.

If people consume them for a few thousand years, and there wasn't any loss in cow numbers, I think that this shouldn't be a problem for anyone!

Dairy products have never been consumed in the vast numbers they are consumed nowadays. Cows have been selectively bred over the past few hundred years to give higher milk yield, and we still have to resort to feeding them hormones to satisfy today's market.

Traditionally, unless you lived in a dairy farming area, dairy products were expensive, luxury products, that you would eat rarely. I've heard old people still talk about cream like it's an enormous treat, and my mother goes crazy for the stuff! In many of the poorer parts of the world (Mexico, India) dairy products are still rarely consumed.

Have you ever seen a mother parted from its infant? Have you ever been forcibly parted from a baby you have just given birth to and bonded with?

In my country there are problems with nutrients being leached from the soil because farmers are farming intensively instead of rotating crops or leaving land fallow. Farming cattle is an inefficient use of land. Cows also account for a fair proportion of greenhouse gas emmissions (!) Loss of cow numbers is not the issue: it's quite the opposite!

From a health perspective, cheese and beef have been shown to imbalance some people's blood sugar levels as badly as eating refined sugar, and diabetics are being advised to avoid them. Cheese is also linked to tension headaches. Then there's the saturated fat content, the increased mucus production, the growing numbers of people who are allergic or intolerant to dairy...

These hormones are thought to be the cause of 11 year-old girls developing much earlier than they normally would.

11?! The lucky sods! I had breasts at nine! (My mother was part of the 'eating dairy every day - every meal most days - to prevent osteoperosis' brigade) If society won't ban dairy, they can at least start making bras for children!

BigBecka wrote:

11?! The lucky sods! I had breasts at nine! (My mother was part of the 'eating dairy every day - every meal most days - to prevent osteoperosis' brigade) If society won't ban dairy, they can at least start making bras for children!

That is early! I'd say that I was around 11. I agree with you about bras for children. I am sure that they are on high demand thanks to dairy . My mom is the same way with milk. She worries every day if I am getting enough calcium . She used to have to beg me to drink a glass of milk (even before I went vegan). I thought that it tasted so nasty. I was a cheese junkie, though, I will admit. Do you want to know something interesting that I read the other day? Supposedly, the reason that cheese is so addicting is because of the milk derivative casein, which mimics the effects of opiate drugs, such as morphine. I guess that this is why cheese is the most difficult food to give up. I am living proof of that. I have been craving cheese more and more every day. I can't find any vegan cheese (besides Tofutti cream cheese) in my area. I have been pulling my hair out lately trying to find a vegan cheese . Anyway, I just thought that I'd share that.

Wow, I didn't realise that about casein - I was a total cheese junkie too, I still crave pizzas and cheese ploughman's (kind of a westcountry thing: some big chunks of the local cheddars or stiltons, with doorstep bread, hot chutney, pickled onion, maybe tomatoes or an apple, washed down with a pint of real ale or cider).

If it's any consolation to your mother, the British Heart Foundation and Diatetic Foundation have started recommending green vegetables (albeit as well as reduced-fat dairy) as a low-fat source of calcium. Maybe she'll find it reassuring that vegetable sources are being recognised by the medical fraternity? Check this out: www.bda.uk.com

I've tried some hard cheese subsitutes (Cheezely) which were horrible beyond comparison - most cheese cravings can be negated with a splash of oil or some kind of sauce. Even my dear Ploughman's dinners can be recreated with some olives and sundried tomatoes You can get a dry mix for a vegan cheese-flavoured sauce for lasagnes, etc. Otherwise, I think your body gets used to different types of food: I've actually started craving salad recently (I used to only eat salad if it was in a burger or kebab!)

Hmm, your studies on child development sound really interesting has there been a lot of research into the effects of dairy on young children? How do your lecturers and other people on your course feel about eating dairy? I have heard that a growing number of children are allergic to dairy: there was a programme on the TV about it a few months back. It's quite a problem, because a lot of processed foods aimed at children use milk derivatives.

Starting from the age of 3 I believe, I'm not sure but I was still in the kindergarten. I couldn't drink cows milk already. I ate cream and cheese but pure milk was something that would make me puke.
And those bastard in the kindergarten were forcing me to drink the glass of milk during the breakfast, which I was vomiting later on the table.


Regarding the cheese crave... in my case it disappeared in a couple of months, starting from the moment when I decided not to eat cheese even on birthdays. Till then I would never buy it myself but when visiting someone, especially on birthday parties it was really difficult for me not to eat some

The only information about the effects of dairy that I have read was in a chapter of our textbook about why breastfeeding is better for babies, but I have noticed that there is a LOT of research articles on the internet about the problems with dairy. Most of the people in my course agree that breastfeeding is better for babies, but I think that they still feel that children and adults should drink milk (probably because of the calcium issue). That reminds me, I will have to tell my mom about the vegetables! Thank you for that link .

I am almost sure that I am the only vegan in my course, but there might be others who just aren't talking about it. I also heard about children being allergic to dairy. I have noticed in my area that all of the foods containing milk must have "contains: milk" written on the back of the container or package. I used to only see warnings about peanuts. With all of the information that is coming out, I don't understand why people continue to drink and eat dairy products. It is strange, but I guess some people don't believe it or just don't care.

Andy, I felt the same way about milk. It tasted very ing. Did you folks over there in the UK have those little strawberry milk containers to drink with your lunch when you were younger? I remember I was always given them, and they made me want to hurl .

And those bastard in the kindergarten were forcing me to drink the glass of milk during the breakfast

Oh, I feel for you! I was never a milk fan, I could only stomach it if enough chocolate milkshake powder was added to stop it tasting like milk I was lucky though, my Mum was put on a low fat diet when I was little, so we had skimmed milk: I could never stomach semi-skimmed or full fat milk, and I used to refuse to eat milk if it had lumps of cream in

The government stopped giving milk to school children before I started going to school, but it was still subsidised, so you could buy a small carton of milk at break-time for something like 10p. I heard a few years back that a group were petitioning the government to bring back free milk for school children. And I was surprised to see a poster at my Doctor's surgery offering free milk to pregnant women. The concern is that poor families won't eat enough green vegetables to get calcium (the supermarkets mark up the price on fresh veg, so a lot of low-income families end up eating convenience foods). I don't know why they don't just promote green veg, but there you go... The nutritional education you get in UK schools is abysmal, a surprising number of people believe that milk=calcium, even last year there was a marketing campaign on the TV, and newspapers will often quote doctors who are worried that low-dairy diets will cause an "epidemic" of osteoperosis amoung women in the future. But it's starting to change, with these celebrity chefs and nutritionalists giving people a better idea of nutrition.

Just saw a documentary called "50 Shocking Facts About Your Food" - The most shocking from my point of view is that it has been shown that, while it is still popular to believe that drinking milk prevents osteopeosis and brittle bones, there is now evidence to suggest that the inverse is true!

Unfortunetley, I didn't catch who had done the research, but I did find the attached on the web at http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/artic ... bones.html:

And milk just doesn’t cut it in terms of bone health: In fact, studies show it’s not the best source of calcium, the most crucial bone-health nutrient, and it doesn’t actually protect against fractures or other bone problems. Doubt was cast on the official advice to drink milk for bone health by the 12-year Nurses’ Health Study, which examined data from over 72,000 post-menopausal women in the US. It revealed that women who drank two or more glasses of milk a day had a higher risk of bone fractures than those consuming one glass a week or less. [Am J Public Health 1997; 87: 992-73]

Here the situation is even worse... many people just don't care what they eat. :\ And those who care do believe that milk=calcium.

There are so many controversial researches lately...
Personally I believe that exercise isn't the last factor in having strong bones.