Vegan Forum

Personally I believe that exercise isn't the last factor in having strong bones.

I think this is very true. I used to have pain in my joints a lot, and I was told it was an precursor or early form of arthritus; my mother and my doctor told me to rest a lot, and not to do high-impact exercise. When I was a teenager I got fed up with being fat and never going out, so my Dad bought me a bicycle which we repaired together, and I went out cycling nearly every day that summer, as well as going walking with my Dad. My mother was horrified, and my parents argued a lot about it. But I lost a lot of weight and the pain in my joints reduced. I started going to the gym when I was old enough, and a gym instructor noticed that I didn't walk properly (my thighs had been so fat that I sort of staggered) - he taught me to walk on a treadmill, and got me using weights, which helps strengthen your bones aswell as muscle. It was he who suggested I take up kickboxing. Now my joints hardly hurt at all, and I get to enjoy life too I suspect the pain was partially caused by my weight, or maybe something that I was eating... I don't know if I might get arthritus badly when I'm older, but, I'd rather be in a wheelchair at 60 than have a heart attack at 40!

Which reminds me, I need to stop surfing the net so much, and bring my bike out of the garage for summer

Here the situation is even worse... many people just don't care what they eat.

That's not good I bet they care when they see those photos of you doing one-handed handstands

I know a few people who still behave like this: they seem to convince themselves that any health problems they have are genetic, or pre-ordained in some way. People often confuse a healthy life-style with extreme fad dieting and eating disorders. I even know people who consider themselves "above" being healthy, and think that they're superior to people who are healthy - they laugh at people who do exercise, are proud of their huge bellies, and order unhealthy food as if to make a point I think they are sometimes jealous and insecure though

BigBecka wrote:I know a few people who still behave like this: they seem to convince themselves that any health problems they have are genetic, or pre-ordained in some way. People often confuse a healthy life-style with extreme fad dieting and eating disorders. I even know people who consider themselves "above" being healthy, and think that they're superior to people who are healthy - they laugh at people who do exercise, are proud of their huge bellies, and order unhealthy food as if to make a point I think they are sometimes jealous and insecure though

That is so true... I so much hate when people leave their fate to their genes.
There are also those people that complain every day about how bad they feel and yet do absolutely nothing about it..

Regarding the bicycle Where do you usually ride it?
I went roller skating a couple of weeks ago, and the back wheel, which I usually use for braking, just broke in the middle of my skating...
imagine how i had to get back home!!
had no spare boots...

LOL!!! I can't skate at all (no sense of balance at all!), but if I go out wearing high-heels I usually carry my trusty baseball boots in a bag for such emergencies Where do you skate - in the city?

Well, I don't cycle much any more. The roads around here are still narrow and windy, but there are more people living here now so there are a LOT of cars. And people aren't very bike-friendly either. So it gets pretty scary! Last year I started getting up early and cycling to work when the roads were still quiet, so I think I'll start doing that again now it's a bit warmer and lighter. But I REALLY want to get in shape and try some of the mountain biking trails round here - it looks so cool! Where I live now is fairly close to Exmoor, and the south coast and North Devon coastal paths. And I normally drive down to Cornwall at least once a year, which still has a lot of wild, unspoilt countryside (and surf!). I'm really lucky to live here, so I ought to make the most of it

I've just been looking at these places on Google Earth - I can't wait for the summer

Yes in the city... but not on the roads.. drivers are quite..hm.. in a hurry around here..

I usually get to a place near a lake were I have plenty of space for skating.

....mountain biking... I've only dreamed of it

rac_box wrote:I don't agree. Why shouldn't we drink milk or cheese? They are some very healthy aliments, rich in Calcium. If people consume them for a few thousand years, and there wasn't any loss in cow numbers, I think that this shouldn't be a problem for anyone!

Milk is not a good source of calcium.

It does contain a lot of calcium but it also contains a lot of protein.

Excess protein prevents your body from absorbing calcium.

Therefore, time-average, you don't get a lot of calcium.




I don't drink milk because it tastes like crap unless it's completely fresh and frigid in temperature. Both Cheese and Milk turn me into phlegm-boy.

Also, my family is a perfect example of those who consume such a diet.

KingFisher9 wrote:A cow needs to be milked in order to live why don't you drink it?

I don't drink milk or eat cheese because the cows providing it are mistreated and then brutally tortured and murdered. The same goes for eggs and honey. I do not believe that any animal or living being deserves to die or hurt in any way so that I can eat. If it doesn't have roots or isn't 100% derived from something that has roots (to include sea vegetables), I don't eat it. I also don't use any products in my home that contain any animal (or possible animal) products. Veganism is a VERY compassionate lifestyle. It can be hard sometimes in today's world, but it's a very important thing to do both compassionately and environmentally. The vegan lifestyle is worth everything that meat-eaters think that we're losing out on. I find that it's the meat-eaters that are losing out on. Come on, most don't even know their basic grains because it's just a side dish to them. Which is okay for them because that's how they like it. But for me and my fellow vegans, we choose to love all beings as we love ourselves and our house pets.

Sergio wrote:

KingFisher9 wrote:A cow needs to be milked in order to live why don't you drink it?

Because calf need that milk.

I agree... That's why they always say that breastfeeding is the best for babies...

The following information is from peta2 in an article called 'Milk Drinkers: Try to Stomach This One!';

'Aside from the disg usting undercover investigation we launched earlier this week into a supplier for Land O' Lakes—showing farm workers kicking and electro-shocking cows too sick to stand up—what's another convincing reason to stop drinking pus, I mean milk?

The veal industry. Baby cows, because their mom's milk ends up on store shelves, are torn from their mothers hours after they're born and then kept weak and immobile in filthy pens for the entirety of their short lives. And if that fails to register your compassion or your di sgust, let's try this: Veal just might be laced with poison.

That's right—federal charges have been issued against Select Veal Foods Inc. for allegedly lacing feed with formaldehyde in order to lessen diarrhea and with potassium permanganate to ensure that the anemic calves' flesh appeared even lighter. Wayne Marcho and Select Veal Feeds are expected to plead guilty to misdemeanor charges of misbranding under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. The company also faces a felony charge for lying to Food and Drug Administration inspectors.

The moral of this story? Every glass of milk you drink has a little veal in it. Not only do you contribute to the suffering of an infant, you also risk eating toxic chemicals that you'd find in your high school chemistry lab. What can you do? Try veganism today!'.

I don't think it mentions it here, but the cows are raped (with what is basically a metal rod with bull sperm in it) to produce the milk you drink - they don't make it without a calf.
When they have the calf, it is then turned into veal (see above). Then, when they are milked, the metal machines are clamped onto their udders so tightly that they produce blisters and sores. The blisters produce pus, the sores bleed, and it all falls into your glass of delicious milk! Then, when all the blood and pus is gone, they scab up, and the scabs fall in too! Yummy!
Then, this delicious concoction of pus, blood, and scabs is turned into cheese, butter, and everything else with dairy in it. Including chocolate

And don't even get me started on eggs.. haha

Thank you, phoebe200309
Unpleasant but effective article.

Because I hate the taste of milk. Also the female cows are being used. In order for them to have milk, don't they have to go through the process of pregnancy first and then give birth? That's kind of considered "rape." If the female cows are fed poorly and are unhealthy, they would probably have a low drive to mate. Anyway, how would after-pregnant female humans would like it if their newly-born child is taking away and only to find her milk being drained away from her breasts? Eek.

I don't eat any dairy because if that cow could speak i know his ass would be yellin' to stay away from his utters! or hers.

But seriously i don't eat dairy b/c i respect all beings and am able to get complete nutrition from all plant sources without having to burden a cow for a precious bodily resource not to mention put it through the awful and unbearable cruelty of dairy farms.

Also you can't separate the white from the red, baby male cows are killed alot of the times check out the dairy section in this pdf http://vegansociety.com/downloads/vegan ... nimals.pdf

In short, to end the suffering of cows.

The dairy industry pushes the importance of milk b/c it has calcium as a huge marketing ploy. Soymilk has just as much. So does fortified cereals and some orange juices. Dark greens are an excellent source of calcium, so are nuts and beans. If you want really strong bones practice tai chi lol, otherwise with regular exercise and proper vegan nutrition you will have wonderful bone strength. I have never been stronger in my life since going vegan, anyone who worries about lacking vitamins on a vegan diet does not know a shred about nutrition.

If you have grown up in American society then you most likely have been 'brainwashed' and bombarded your whole life by the media, parents, and doctors who may not be aware of just how much calcium you can get from non-animal sources. With a daily multivitamin it is so easy to get the daily amount of calcium.

To add, in many businesses (can't even call them "ranches") in the meat industry animals are pumped up with antibiotics in their food to help them deal with their awful living conditions. These are present in the meat and dairy products, and lead to antibiotic resistance in humans. Antibiotics kill the good and the bad bacteria, and the ones that survive multiply and are nearly impossible to kill off if/when necessary.

Also, think of how many lactose intolerant people are out there. Lactase is not produced in abundance in our body, and instead of people realizing that maybe milk doesn't make them feel so great, they resort to Lactaid and other dietary aid pills to help them digest this sugar that maybe we shouldn't be mass consuming in the first place. Humans are the only animal who consume milk after infancy.

It killed me how, on the news, during the big snowstorm we in the northeast had, that one family bemoaned the lack of milk in their home. Gee, they could eat legumes for protein, and greens for calcium. Most Americans have much food stockpiled; I doubt most of us woukd go hungry.

Although I havn't been doing it for long, some vegans scare the crap out of me. The ignorance on both sides is truly heartbreaking.

Personally, aware of how dairy cows are mostly treated now is the only reason I don't drink cow's milk.

Same goes for eating chicken, pork and beef...

And is also the reason I won't buy things tested on animals or containing animals. Not because the idea of having animals on me bothers me.. but because I feel that animal has a right to a free [free-ish in the case of farm animals] and atleast mostly natural life. And not to be kicked around or stomped on with nobody coming to their rescue. Because we as humans have the choice of treating everything around us with respect but often choose to abuse our power as an opposable thumb weilding people.

So I suppose vegan isn't the term for me. I think it's insane when vegans talk about how eating meat isn't natural, how it contributes to cancers, etc. Or that the milk is made purely for the calf.

A dog's milk is made for puppies but how many times have you seen a dog take in an adopted orphan kitten and feed it as if it were it's own? No, I do not compare commercial farming in the same reguards as a kitten suckling off the teet of a mother dog, BUT. That's as if saying that act is wrong, simply because dog's milk is made for dogs. Cows can and have raised young while providing enough milk for humans as well. But they should not be forced to carry calves their entire lives, have their calves ripped away from them at birth and tied into a small box to become veal either.

There are certain restrictions that need to be applied. And until those restrictions are in place, I'll stick to soy beverages and eggs from the nice farmer who lives an hour away and has a little chicken coop. An ACTUAL coop. With grain, and fully feathered and beaked chickens walking around. With names. And when they get too old to produce eggs they're killed and become meat for their human. :3

I do not eat milk or eat cheese as these are non vegan foods.
The question in this forum should be why are you vegan essentially rather than anything this specific.
New born babies should have breast milk in the same way all other mammals who are herbivores provide milk for their new born to begin with.
Only humans in their misguided wisdom decided that regularly consuming milk as an ongoing food source in to their adult lives was a good idea it seems.

KingFisher9 wrote:Right, but I'm sure that the milk industry doesn't just let the calf die. If the calf die they loose money and starving a calf is against the law. So the milk that is on the market is not needed by the calf

if the calf is a male it is sent to slaughter as and sold as veal female calves are raised until they are able to be impregnated. once they give birth the calf is taken away from them and they cry and cry until a few days later they are impregnated again. when they cannot give birth anymore they are sent to slaughter. the average cow can live 20 to 25 years. most dairy cows live about 5 years.

Drinking cows milk is bizarre in itself as no other species drinks milk past the weaning stage - imagine breastfeeding someone at 30 and tell me if that's normal?
In addition to that, the milk you drink, in the natural order of things, is supposed to be of your own species.

So uh, if you're that keen on drinking milk past the point of weening, the logic thing to do would be to go have a chat to your mother and see how she feels on the subject.

Perhaps there's a little hint here about why she doesn't lactate anymore.

Milk is very good for us but cheese certainly not for me because I am bit weight conscious.

cheese is mainly casein (milk protein) and there are evidences of casein turning on cancer in lab animals better than a carcinogen (cancer promoting components in body). This is the reason I stay clear of cheese. Also I think dairy does not sit well with me especially high fat yogurt! gives me a bad tummy ache......

In the milk industry the cow get pregnant around the clock in order to produce milk. It is not natural process. In nature the cows get pregnant only once a year. So in order to produce milk the cows in the milk industry:
1. Get separate from their calf a few hours after birth
2. Are treated for horns, which can injure the calves
3. Get marked with dry ice
4. Becoming milking machines
5. Their udders get filled with milk and it hurts them.
6. In the end they get slaughtered

Milk is often praised as a perfect food which contains all the protein, fats and minerals that are needed for a healthy life. It is often recommended that we drink a pint of milk a day. Milk is, after all, the only food for the young of mammals. It seems natural that we should rely on it and other dairy produce manufactured from milk as a source of nutrition.
But matters are not so straightforward. Cows' milk is not a natural food for human beings. For human infants it can be harmful unless modified as it is infant formula. When Milk Is Not A Healthy Food

I stopped drinking milk 6 years ago. Occasionally i drink it with tea or coffee once in a six months. Yes i am not taking caffeine as well regularly. I am having Knee pain complain. I have noticed that whenever i gain the weight i have such problem.

Parents are always advising me you have stopped drinking milk thats why you knees are hurting. But as per my calculation and experience i don't believe in it.

I have started bit jogging and stretch out. It cured. I also have firm suggestion that cow milk is for calf only not for humans.