Vegan Forum

I think a way to solve this whole dilemma is for vegheads to just give it a rest. Give it up. Act like normal humans beings.

Act how people are supposed to act. DO things the way everybody else does and you'll be fine.

And that's how the Nazis got to power...

Vive la difference!

"DO things the way everybody else does and you'll be fine."
Hahaha!!!! Lol!!!!!!


I think meat-heads should stop slaughtering innocent animals then at least something in this world will be finer.

I'm done with this. Vegans and vegetarians can sort out their own psychotic issues, I should stop trying to convince you of how you're slowly destroying your health

What dilemma? What psychotic issues? We're all happy - you're the one with the psychotic issues!

Every time somebody asks you why you think we're 'starving ourselves' or destroying our health, you just tell us that scientific and historical evidence "doesn't matter," that we should stop questioning, and that we should be normal or act like everyone else.

You ignore the vast number of responses you've had from very intelligent individuals on this site, including those on nutrition, and insult us with your irrational and predjudiced opinion that we are somehow damaging ourselves just to be different. If I wanted to be different, I would just wear a yellow sweater or get my eyebrow pierced or something.

If you opened your eyes and saw any of the world beyond whatever narrow little society you live in, you would see that we ARE everyone else. Vegetarianism and veganism are VERY COMMON. Can I spell it out any more simply for you?

Why aren't the papers full of stories about vegans dropping dead from starvation? Why aren't our mental hospitals and refuges for anorexics stuffed full of vegans?

People are inherently different - they are not doing it to annoy you! Even if you converted all of us to eat meat, who would your next target be? Different religions? Gays and Lesbians? Single parents? People with jobs you don't approve of? People who don't look like models? Perhaps you could provide us with some guidelines on how we should live?

And intelligent people ask questions. It's usually encouraged: it makes for a healthy society and is a necessary prerequisite for a functioning democracy. I think it's very sad that you've been taught not to question.

Of course we promote vegetarianism, but nobody is coming round to your house and forcing you to eat lentils! When we accept and embrace each others' differences, the world becomes a better place.

I've asked before why you have such a problem with veganism. Has someone you know starved themselves? Is this why you're on this weird mission to bully us out of eating meat? Whatever major trauma you've had, I strongly advise you get some psychiatric help.

BigBecka, your examples of who I would target next are kind of weird. You categorize all of them together.

A single parent is normal. The kind of people you mentioned before single parents aren't.

And I do know where you can get guidelines on how to live. Read the Bible.

I haven't been taught not to question, but I don't question normal things. Saying it's bad to eat meat is like saying, "Why do people sleep? It's a waste of time. Let's be different and just not sleep!"

You're looking for the meaning behind eating meat. There is none. We're just supposed to eat it. It's JUST FOOD. Meat-eaters aren't trying to make a statement by eating meat. But vegans wouldn't know that, because vegans think EVERYTHING you do is making a statement. We don't sleep because we're trying to prove something. We don't breathe because we're trying to prove something.

A single parent is normal. The kind of people you mentioned before single parents aren't.

My point is that all or none of these can be categorised as normal, depending on your personal belief system. Who are you to say that any of the people I described are not normal?

Other religions make up most of the people on the planet: only 33% world's population are christian (and that includes all denominations). Homosexuals consitute a significant proportion of the world's population and are becoming widely accepted in most societies - they certainly tend to think of themselves as normal. Conversely, being a single parent is considered very abnormal and unacceptable in certain circles: even in the early 20th century an unmarried mother would be put in a workhouse, convent or lunatic asylum, while the child was adopted. Single fathers still face discrimination, as do people who do a job traditionally associated with the other gender (male nurses, female engineers).

There's already been quite a bit of debate on this site about what constitutes normal. What's your definition?

And I've never heard of anyone being vegetarian just to be different! Where do you get this from?! That's the sort of thing people say when you're a teenager! There are 1/4 million vegans in the UK, and vegetarianism is quite common.

And I do know where you can get guidelines on how to live. Read the Bible.

Are you for real?! Ha, I walked into that! It's so open to interpretation! Which version do I go for?! Seriously, I haven't found it much help; everyone can find a bible quote to support their point of view. And I did post somewhere else that the bible seems to promote vegetarianism...

Who is saying that we're supposed to eat meat? It is certainly as natural to eat as it is to breathe, but there is no need to eat meat.

But vegans wouldn't know that, because vegans think EVERYTHING you do is making a statement.

This is very predjudiced and misinformed.

What makes you think I'm looking for a meaning behind eating meat? If you want all "vegheads" to "give it up," you're going to have to give a good reason why!

Reasons for being vegan:
ethical / animal rights
religious / spiritual
an objection to livestock farming methods (battery farming, use of steroids, use of innappropriate animal feeds)
a desire to utilise farmland efficiently (the original reason the vegtarian society was formed)
social / economic reasons (healthier workforce gives increased productivity)
proven health benefits (lower saturated fat and higher fibre)
fears regarding food safety (E-coli, salmonella, BSE, etc)

Reasons to quit being vegan:
It conflicts with MomoPeach's perception of normality: we are "supposed" to eat meat
MomoPeach believes everone has always eaten meat, even though this is not true
Care has to be taken to eat the correct nutritional balance
Some restaurants and caterers do not provide for vegans (though most can be persuaded to)

Can you see why you're not getting anywhere here? I challenge you to give me a good reason to quit being vegan!

You're the misinformed one. Are you seriously saying a single parent is more abnormal than those backwards people you mentioned? And I wasn't talking about different religions, mind you.

I'm tired of you treating the Bible like just another book, and if you can belittle my religion I have every right to belittle your vegan beliefs.

Vegans do think everything you do is making a statement and you know it.

Who is saying that we're supposed to eat meat?

I am, and so is everyone else with common sense about food. FOOD. It is just FOOD. Why can't you get it into your head that you are NOT MAKING A DIFFERENCE?

Reason's to quit being vegan:

It's stupid, pointless, a waste of time. It's just another weird group of people who try to be different and weird and try to challenge the world.

Are you seriously saying a single parent is more abnormal than those backwards people you mentioned?

NO! I am saying that these are all examples of groups of people that SOME people consider abnormal. Single parents were once (recently)considered abnormal by society. Tomorrow, other things that are currently "weird" or "backward" will be "normal."

I am not intending to belittle your religion, though I am shocked that you would tell me to read the bible! I was quite seriously trying to point out that the bible is open to interpretation on many issues (and different denominations disagree on these). I am surprised at the way you dismiss scientific and historical evidence, and make sweeping statements about what is "normal," or "has always been done;" do you realise that many people would consider you weird?! To an outsider, yes, the bible is just another book; you have to accept that most of the world are not christian and are not going to accept biblical text as fact. And the biblical references supporting vegetarianism are genuine: check them if you like!

Farming is a customer driven market. If less people eat meat and dairy, farmers will produce less (and have to find something else to sell). If people buy more organic produce, farmers are forced to provide organic food. Likewise, restaurants and food outlets have to compete for customers. Farmers started using unethical methods to produce more meat and dairy in response to a population who wanted it. They will stop doing it if it ceases to be profitable. Polititians will not subsidise certain farming activities if it costs them votes. It's already having an impact here in the UK, where people in general are becoming increasingly better-informed and concerned about their food.

And some vegans are not trying to affect the market; it's can be a personal choice based on any combination of the reasons I listed (which, I've just realised, should have included allergies and intolerances, and sports/musical reasons)

I, personally, feel much happier and healthier being vegan. That is a very big difference.

You act like the other 67 percent of people are not religious at all, instead of just non-Christian.

And, like I said, it's just food. You eat it.

Really? Granted, the Jews and (I think) Muslims abide by the old testament... But that's still not everybody by a very long way!

If it's all just food, why do you care what anyone else eats?

I doubt you eat all the food on offer to you! You like cockroaches? They're a very good source of protein! What about rat? Horse (a bit stringy for my liking, but I'm told the rump steaks are gorgeous)? Dolphin? Whale?

You keep using weird, abnormal examples and treating them like the normal examples. You did it first grouping weird people with normal people in your other post, and now grouping weird foods with normal foods. You treat them like they're all the same and they're not. It just so happens that some things are normal and others just aren't. That's just the way it is and that's all there is to it.

Yep, you still haven't defined normal. Or explained why it bothers you!

What you consider normal is not what another person considers normal. The "weird" and "normal" things I group together seem very much the same to me.

All the foods I mentioned are considered normal in some countries.
- I wasn't joking about the horse - it's readily available in Italy (I've had horse meatballs and even horse-mince pizza in my meat-eating days), and a delicacy in France.
- Insects including cockroaches are eaten in many parts of South America and Africa, and I believe there's a sweet shop in California that sells insects.
- Rat used to be regularly eaten by the poor in cities (and, from my days packing burgers, I've heard they occasionally venture into mincing machines...). Muskrat (not quite the same, but still a rodent) is still eaten in Belgium, Holland, and the Detroit area.
- Whale is a staple food in arctic areas; Norway and Russia still condone whaling, and whale blubber is both a Japanese and an Inuit delicacy. Beluga caviar is a very expensive delicacy everywhere, and importation to the USA was only made illegal in September 2005. Lipsticks were made from whale blubber well into the 80's.

All the types of people I mentioned are considered normal in some communities, and not in others. In the UK gay marriages were legalised last year, and we even have gay clergy. In contrast, as a young woman, my mother (like most women at the time) was threatened with the workhouse if she ever dared become pregnant outside marriage. Times are just changing...

A friend of mine has just returned from the Gujerati region of India, where veganism is the norm. Cattle are considered holy, and there is no intensive farming. As a result, only the very rich can afford a little meat in their curry, or a splash of milk in their coffee.

Several people have already pointed out to you that societies' views on what is normal changes, and does not always reflect what is right. How can you say that something "just is" normal? Haven't you wondered why you have been told this? The concept of normality is a powerful weapon used to control and manipulate society, and I would advise being very wary of it.

There is no way to define normal. If something is normal you can tell, if it's not you can tell also. Unless you're just a weird person, like a vegan, and you think that weird is normal and normal is weird. Why it bothers me? Cause it ain't normal. Cause it's WEIRD.

You talk about people eating horses and bugs and stuff: I didn't think you were jokng. I know that people eat that stuff. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying it's not normal. I know, I know you're trying to show that it IS normal for the people who eat it. Simple explanation: If they think it's normal they're weird.

All the types of people I mentioned are considered normal in some communities, and not in others.

Considered normal in some communites. If someone considers a weird thing normal that makes them weird. You state that things can be considered normal or wierd depending on the soceity you're in. But that's not the point. It all comes down to what the normal people think is normal. If it isn't normal to normal people it ain't normal at all.

How can I say something is normal because it "just is? Because I "just can". VegHeads have to question everything. According to you, you just can't do things the normal way, how they are suppossed to be done, because then you woulnd't "stand out" or look like you're so "unique".

Aah, I must be mixing with the wrong people This is like being back at school!

To summarise: we must all quit being vegan because the normal people (who are not us) do not consider vegans to be normal. These people are bothered by things that are not normal, so we must do as they say. It is more important for a normal person to be happy, than it is for a "weird" person, like a vegan, to live in a way that makes them happy.

And I thought we lived in a free society!

VegHeads have to question everything. According to you, you just can't do things the normal way, how they are suppossed to be done, because then you woulnd't "stand out" or look like you're so "unique".

What the ****?! Where do you get this from?! I said nothing of the sort! I think you have some bizarre predjudice here! I know some people think being vegan is a way for teenagers to rebel, but I've got news for you! Some of us are way past the "trying to be different" stage: the vegan society was founded in 1944, and it's founder, Donald Watson (a respectable teacher), was vegan for over 60 years (until his death). Besides, I am not in a career where I can go around trying to be weird and unique at people! Eating a salad or mezze for lunch really does not make you stand out all that much

I'm happy being vegan. According to you, I have a choice between being "normal" and miserable, or "weird" and happy. Which do you seriously think anyone would choose?

To summarise: we must all quit being vegan because the normal people (who are not us) do not consider vegans to be normal. These people are bothered by things that are not normal, so we must do as they say. It is more important for a normal person to be happy, than it is for a "weird" person, like a vegan, to live in a way that makes them happy.

Yup.

Well, I don't think I'll be quitting anytime soon, then! Report it back to the secret council of normal people! Set the normal police on me!

Do you want to tell my Gujerati friend that he and all his countryfolk are weird? That could be entertaining!

Never heard of Gujerati or anything like that.

Gujerat (or Gujarat) is a region of western India - its inhabitants are known as Gujerati.

Well, if they're vegan, then they are weird too.

MomoPeach wrote:Well, if they're vegan, then they are weird too.

This is not much better than the next one: "If someone acts like an egocentrist in a forum, then he is almost certainly a citizen of USA"

MomoPeach, you claim to be against veganism, and yet, you are posting on a vegan forum. That is rather funny, wouldn't you say so? For one to take time out of his or her life to search for vegan forums on the internet, register to those forums, and then post in those forums when he or she is clearly against veganism is quite odd. At first, I was not going to respond to this post because you are clearly a closed-minded person hiding behind Christianity to make yourself feel worth while and moral. There is obviously an inner conflict that is driving you to feel threatened by vegans. Could it be guilt? Could it be the fear of change? Only you can answer this, but of course, you will deny caring about vegans. This will not work, however, because you do care about vegans, and you care so much that you will take time out of your day to try to convert them to your lifestyle.

MomoPeach wrote:I think a way to solve this whole dilemma is for vegheads to just give it a rest. Give it up. Act like normal humans beings.

Act how people are supposed to act. DO things the way everybody else does and you'll be fine.

Give what a rest? Give our lifestyle a rest? Excuse me, but what right do you have to tell me or anyone else that it is time for me to "give it a rest"? Are you my god, my mother, or my boss? Are you a person that is of any importance to me? I do not go around telling people to give eating meat a rest. If that is their chosen lifestyle, I accept it and respect it. You want me to act like a "normal human being"? I already am. Everyone is different with different opinions and different beliefs. No one person is a clone of the other. I am living my opinions and beliefs in the same way that you are. Do you have such a large ego that you think you are the judge of what is "normal" and what is not?

MomoPeach wrote:I'm done with this. Vegans and vegetarians can sort out their own psychotic issues, I should stop trying to convince you of how you're slowly destroying your health

"Psychotic issues"? Please... Before you start insulting people by suggesting that they have a mental illness, do yourself a favor and actually research mental illnesses. Vegans are of the same mental health as you are. To diagnose someone with psychosis because of their choice of diet is ridiculous in itself. Next you will be calling people psychotic because they prefer peanut butter over jelly. Second of all, why don't you give something a rest, starting with the health debate. It has been long proven that veganism is beyond healthy. If you do not want to be a vegan, don't. Get on with your life, and quit making excuses for yourself, which is exactly what you are doing. You don't have to prove anything to us about why you do not like veganism, unless you are trying to prove something to yourself.

MomoPeach wrote:You're looking for the meaning behind eating meat. There is none. We're just supposed to eat it. It's JUST FOOD. Meat-eaters aren't trying to make a statement by eating meat. But vegans wouldn't know that, because vegans think EVERYTHING you do is making a statement. We don't sleep because we're trying to prove something. We don't breathe because we're trying to prove something.

I do not know where you are getting this "making a statement." I am a vegan because I care deeply about the treatment of animals and could not imagine eating the flesh of a creature. There is a large difference between not sleeping and not contributing to the torture and slaughter of animals. Could your argument sink any lower?

MomoPeach wrote:Well, if they're vegan, then they are weird too.

Ah, and we have reached the dead end, haven't we? No other argument left but do continue the repetitive name calling that you have undergone throughout this entire thread. "Weird, weird, weird, and weird." Everyone that is unlike you is "weird," hm? I suppose Jesus was "weird" because perhaps he had brown hair and you have blonde or black? Just maybe your brother and sister are "weird" because they like different music than you? I have bad news for you, MomoPeach. By your definition, the entire world and beyond is "weird."

My frustration towards you is not only about your view on veganism, it is on how closed-minded you are. The people that irk me the most are the ignorant, vain people like yourself. I can only hope that you some day realize this.

Nice one!

I think MomoPeach's definition of weird, and ignorance of other cultures, speak volumes.

No need to lose your tempr just because you are weird.

MomoPeach's definition of weird

Like my definition of weird is out of the ordinary? My definition of weird is perfectly standard.

Weird:(adjective) Not normal

MomoPeach wrote:No need to lose your tempr just because you are weird.

I was not losing my temper, I was simply expressing my thoughts. I have been aware that I am weird long before you have told me, but thank you for the reminder . Your attempted insults don't change the way I think, nor will they ever, but you keep on calling me weird if that's what floats your boat .

I thought the point of this thread was that MomoPeach wanted us to quit being vegan? Calling me weird does not constitute a credible reason to quit. I've had a lifetime of hideous little girls telling me that I need to copy every little thing they do, or I'll be "weird."

Say, Mary-Jane, I'd better bleach my hair, wear Nike trainers, change what subjects I study and kiss some loser, otherwise people might think I'm weird Grow up! The world's a wonderful diverse place!

BigBecka wrote:I thought the point of this thread was that MomoPeach wanted us to quit being vegan? Calling me weird does not constitute a credible reason to quit. I've had a lifetime of hideous little girls telling me that I need to copy every little thing they do, or I'll be "weird."

Say, Mary-Jane, I'd better bleach my hair, wear Nike trainers, change what subjects I study and kiss some loser, otherwise people might think I'm weird Grow up! The world's a wonderful diverse place!

I agree! Why would anyone want the world to be full of clones? We are humans, not robots.

Some people.. and I would say many are just afraid to be different.. to be a personality.. to stay his own believes.

Some people.. and I would say many are just afraid to be different.. to be a personality.. to stay his own believes.

That's what being vegetarian is about.. being proud of who you are and love the ones that aren't you clones.. or even your race.

What the heck? "Trainers"...just say shoes.