Vegan Forum

by **Guest** » Jul 20, 2002 9:10 pm

I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.

by **Guest** » Jul 26, 2002 7:20 pm

don't commit suicide, if you are dead, than there is no way that you can aid in righting the wrongs of this world. you need to understand that you are doing the best you can. this guilt is in all of us, it's the drive that pushes us to do all we can to make the world better, for everyone and everything. direct the guilt into action, and you can do great things, but if you take your own life, you are not helping any cause. if you are dead, how can you spread the word of animal (or plant) rights? how can you make a difference if you are unable to talk? how can you act with passion that others can see your example and follow if you cannot feel? others feel the same, understand, please, that we are all just doing the best we can...

dragonfly · by **dragonfly** » Sep 11, 2002 6:39 am

This message board needs more people.

sXeJVeg · by **sXeJVeg** » Sep 13, 2002 4:08 am

I agree, but if all the posters here do is talk about suicide, i don't know how many people that will attract :smile:

dragonfly · by **dragonfly** » Sep 20, 2002 2:10 am

Yeah that seems like a rather off-beat topic. As in a bad approach. i guess somebody wants to spread the feelings of distrust and moral incongruence here on too thick.

Karyuu · by **Karyuu** » Apr 6, 2003 6:09 am

Heh, I realize I'm replying rather late to this topic, but you guys asked for more visitors, so here I am o_O I wanted to mention an Arrogant Worms song - Carrot Juice Is Murder. It's quite a laugh

Check out the lyrics, at least. I recommend it. *nods*

Dodic · by **Dodic** » Apr 6, 2003 8:09 am

Karyuu: Where can we see the lyrics?

Dodic · by **Dodic** » Apr 6, 2003 8:31 am

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged.

How do you know plants have feelings?
Do vegetables and fruits try to avoid you when you pick them up from plants?
I don't think so... Do carrots and tomatos try to run when you cut them for salads? Hm...

Actualy vegetables and fruits are designed as food for animals. It's a way for plants to reproduce themsleves. Seeds in these fruits are not
digestable so they go out with feces which is a good fertiliser.

Did you ever thought why most ripe fruits have such bright colors and sweet aromas? I don't think that's because they want to hide from you.
I think it's quite oposite.

Another thing is eating seeds and nuts.
But you can compare seeds and nuts with sperm, usualy men waste a lot of it just for pleasure and only a very small amount is really used for reproduction. Usually the strongest sperm succedes thus is the nature of evolution the same is with plants. Only with plants human decide which seeds are good for reproduction and which can be used as food.

Karyuu · by **Karyuu** » Apr 6, 2003 7:52 pm

I should've posted a link, m'sorry

Carrot Juice Is Murder

Dodic · by **Dodic** » Apr 7, 2003 6:54 am

Wow! Where can we listen it?

This is cool:

I saw a man eating celery, so I beat him black and blue
If he ever touches a sprout again, I'll bite him clean in two
I'm a political prisoner, trapped in a windowless cage
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips by killing five men in a rage
I told the judge when he sentenced me, "This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again just to save one more cauliflower"

Chorus

How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!
Oh spare the spud! Eat a cow instead!

Karyuu · by **Karyuu** » Apr 8, 2003 11:06 pm

Well, I have it on a cd, but you could download it with a peer-to-peer program, like Morpheus or KaZaA. ...*searches for a bit*... Actually, you can download it from here . Scroll down to the free mp3 downloads, and it's listed there

By the Arrogant Worms, of course. They're such a humorous Canadian group.

Kelsk · by **Kelsk** » Feb 25, 2004 1:23 pm

They don't have a brain or nervous system, thus can't feel pain as such nor can they have a sense of self-being. No more then a lump of mold anyway. They cannot feel sad or happy.

Well okay, they are alive and plants like all life forms need respect. But unlike animals they can't feel pain or suffering. So in light of this you shouldn't feel bad for eating them.

However, I do see where you are coming from with this. I hate having to eat planets and such too. However I have to if I wish to carry out my life.

adam · by **adam** » Apr 22, 2004 7:47 pm

Anonymous wrote:I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.

Hi 'Anonymous,' It is very commendable of you for feeling so deeply, but we are human and on Earth this day, we are to live and learn, if we subsist on vegetables ...so be it, the best one can do. But if you should be in a position without food, one can survive by placing your fingertips together and exhale all breath, this is not recommended for usual 'meals' but in an emergency, ...if one trys to use daily it will not comletely suffice for nutritional needs. Don't forget to separate fingertips when need to inhale. Best of fortune, ak

adam · by **adam** » Apr 22, 2004 8:02 pm

Kelsk wrote:They don't have a brain or nervous system, thus can't feel pain as such nor can they have a sense of self-being. No more then a lump of mold anyway. They cannot feel sad or happy.

Well okay, they are alive and plants like all life forms need respect. But unlike animals they can't feel pain or suffering. So in light of this you shouldn't feel bad for eating them.

However, I do see where you are coming from with this. I hate having to eat planets and such too. However I have to if I wish to carry out my life.

Hi kelsk, Not to place too much worry about the feelings of plants...but wish to claim everything is alive, and should be respected for their value to all, I expect they feel and sense. But your understanding of our place on Earth is of merit, and sober, quite mature. Best of fortune, ak

cowpie · by **cowpie** » Sep 21, 2004 3:42 am

I think Guest #1 doth pulleth our leg. Maybe suicide will put him out of our misery :lol:

Alistar · by **Alistar** » Feb 20, 2005 11:38 am

Cowpie, why don't you help him you know how hard sometimes is to comit a suicide? :fart:

rshar538 · by **rshar538** » Apr 8, 2005 1:17 am

i read in my science book that they have no central nervous system which enables us to feel pain. So i guess plants have no feeling, we can eat them without feeling guilty.

MuskokaVegetarian · by **MuskokaVegetarian** » Jul 28, 2010 3:56 pm

Being vegan does not mean being emo

meign · by **meign** » Sep 23, 2010 12:04 pm

I have heard the song... That song seemed to be so old... But somehow i can get what it is trying to say...

Are plants capable of regeneration? I think its ok with them if we eat them.

snog · by **snog** » Oct 28, 2010 10:19 am

MuskokaVegetarian wrote:Being vegan does not mean being emo

Lol! Agreed.

meign · by **meign** » Nov 4, 2010 1:34 am

This topic seems to have a small cute funny conversation...

snog wrote:
MuskokaVegetarian wrote:Being vegan does not mean being emo

Lol! Agreed.

Is anyone becoming emo?

Alistar wrote:Cowpie, why don't you help him you know how hard sometimes is to comit a suicide?

Will it be called suicide if someone will be helping?

signlink · by **signlink** » Nov 15, 2010 12:22 am

Plants have cell walls. (see thru the lines)

meign · by **meign** » Nov 15, 2010 5:32 am

You have a point there signlink

CrystalMV · by **CrystalMV** » Nov 16, 2010 2:23 pm

There is nothing wrong with eating plants because humans wouldn't survive otherwise. There is no proof that they feel pain. Do plants form scabs because they want to? What about humans? Do they recover from injuries because they DECIDE to or because their body is designed in that way? Some people don't feel pain because of their genetics, but does that directly influence recovery processes? It doesn't seem like that to me.

meign · by **meign** » Nov 19, 2010 2:24 am

If vegans will also stop eating plants because of environmental concern, then what will vegans eat for living?

Sewn · by **Sewn** » Nov 19, 2010 2:35 am

I would argue that plants are clearly different from animals.

At the same time, we share obvious similarities. We are both alive. We both endeavor to survive, thrive, and reproduce. We both respond to stimuli in our environments. We happen to share many of the same compounds in our bodies. To say we are "different" or "no different" depends on where you choose to draw the line.

How do you know plants have feelings?
Do vegetables and fruits try to avoid you when you pick them up from plants?

Let's turn those questions around.

How do you know plants don't have feelings? The first question you may want to ask is "Can I communicate with plants?" Can anyone? Not well, I imagine.

It's worth pointing out that we can't communicate effectively at all with many animals (like invertebrates and fish), yet many people will still try to afford some courtesy to them. Most considerate people I know wouldn't even swat a fly without a good reason. Or cut down a tree. Or pull up a flower bed.

As for plants not running away, well, do plants jump into your mouth? Do they chew themselves?

Plants do move, by the way. Most don't move very much. Only enough to reach sunlight or water and so slowly that many people wouldn't realize it unless you were paying attention. Instead of rapid movement, most plants have evolved toxins, poisons, barbs, tough skin, and other passive defenses to avoid or limit predation (gee, sounds like another Kingdom I know!). In turn, animals have evolved processes to neutralize toxins or safely bypass these defenses. Like a tough beak to break a shell. Or a stone mill to grind a seed (that's us, by the way).

Fruit seeds are actually quite digestible after you grind them up. Toxins and all.

Another thing is eating seeds and nuts.But you can compare seeds and nuts with sperm, usualy men waste a lot of it just for pleasure and only a very small amount is really used for reproduction.

Not a fair comparison, actually. Sperm is one thing. So is an unfertilized egg. Separately, neither of these can reproduce life (not as many of us are familiar with it, anyway). Seeds are closer to fertilized eggs. They contain everything necessary to begin growing into a new plant.

In animal terms, grinding up something like, say, a staff of wheat is a lot like murdering the mom with her baby. Food for thought.

AdamD · by **AdamD** » Jan 16, 2011 3:08 pm

Lack of understanding does not equate to justification for eating plant matter.
Until we can say with 100% certainty that plants cannot feel pain (i.e: never) vegans cannot justifiably take the moral high ground.
Even if plants can't feel pain, like the poster above me said, they sure as heck don't want to be eaten (most of the time at least, some plants reproduce in very interesting ways!) so how can you say it's different enough from eating animals to justify.

Jessica11 · by **Jessica11** » Jan 17, 2011 3:41 am

But, can I get the same proteins my body needs without eating meat products?

AdamD · by **AdamD** » Mar 7, 2011 4:25 pm

Sure, I mean if you wanted you could take pills all day and cut out the eating aspect all together!

philosopher · by **philosopher** » Mar 7, 2011 9:46 pm

Guest wrote:I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.

I applaud your attempt at impersonating a "guilty vegan". Lolz all around!