Vegan Forum

"There is no connection! I can make the same connection between masturbation and intelligence.
Since humans masturbate much more often than primates and we are the "most intelligent" following your logic means that we evolved our brains when we started to masturbate which is total BS."
haha i love this. people so often dont know the difference between correlation and causation. it is one of the most common mistakes we make when we evaluate the results of research. just because eating meat and being intelligent are correlated it doesnt mean that one causes the other.

AndyBa wrote:AdamD, the question is how will Human evolve without meat?
And the answer is, humans will not evolve because of diet. They will "evolve" if something bad will happen to earth and most people will die and only some mutated humans will remain that will be fit to live in new conditions. That will be evolution.

Considering current Globalization random micro-evolution due to gene drifting is very unlikely it can happen only in small populations.
So what is left for us in terms of evolutions is development: Development of culture, development of science, development of ethics.

That's just a blatant lie. People are always evolving to better survive in a modern society. Those who can't function as well in modern society drift to the bottom of the economic scale and eventually die out. Evolution always has and always will be part of life for every species. It's not as obvious now as it was before but it is definitely there.

CrystalMV wrote:

AdamD wrote:From an anthropological perspective, every existing human society is omnivorous. This indicates that humans are meant to be omnivorous.

You just proved that you can't even compare adequately. You say there are no societies where everyone is vegetarian and ignore the fact that there are no societies where no one is vegetarian. SOME people eat meat and that doesn't prove anything.

No, the vast, vast majority of people have eaten meat and still do eat meat. Vegitarians throuhgout history have been almost irrelevant in terms of people per capita. My point still stands. Societies that predominantly eat meat have survived through to the modern day, this implies that meat causes a society to last (strong enough correlation does imply causation).

AdamD wrote:No, the vast, vast majority of people have eaten meat and still do eat meat. Vegitarians throuhgout history have been almost irrelevant in terms of people per capita. My point still stands. Societies that predominantly eat meat have survived through to the modern day, this implies that meat causes a society to last (strong enough correlation does imply causation).

More popular doesn't mean better. You can see this situation in Windows/Linux, Christianity/Buddhism, SA-MP/MTA and also omnivorous/vegan diet. The vast majority of people have health problems, so what, health problems cause the societies to last? From your statements we could say that the vast majority of people live a lifestyle perfect for the health. The more convincing correlation is between average lifespan in the community and plant/animal food consumption ratio. Also, why are you lying and telling "there are no vegan societies"? http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-life/article2204749.ece

you begin to evolve once you stop eating meat...

Kensho

CrystalMV wrote:More popular doesn't mean better. You can see this situation in Windows/Linux, Christianity/Buddhism, SA-MP/MTA and also omnivorous/vegan diet. The vast majority of people have health problems, so what, health problems cause the societies to last?

Nowhere did I say that more popular means better, only that such a strong associating between omnivorous societies and surviving indicates some form of correlation between the meat eating and success when coupled with the added information that no vegan society has survived (or even formed on a relevant scale). As for you last question about health problems the answer is yes. An element of adversity has always been present in human existence and must always be present to whip us along the road to progress. If none of us had medical problems then medicine would hardly see cause to advance.

CrystalMV wrote: From your statements we could say that the vast majority of people live a lifestyle perfect for the health.

Although you could say that you would be completely misinterpreting what I said for the sake of furthering your own argument. That's called straw-manning and is an argumentative no-no.

CrystalMV wrote: The more convincing correlation is between average lifespan in the community and plant/animal food consumption ratio. Also, why are you lying and telling "there are no vegan societies"? http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-life/article2204749.ece

I would hardly call the existence of one tribe of savages who are locked in the stone age 'survival' nor would I see it as compelling if you did call it survival.

Humans can survive without meat... but how will they evolve?

Evolution is so slow that by the time we'd evolve we'll be so far ahead of nature that you couldn't even call it evolution anymore.

Perhaps this analogy will increase your understanding. No culture has ever existed without sexual reproduction. I believe sex is natural. I find sex to be quite enjoyable. I believe it would be the end of human civilization as we know it if everyone stopped having sex. However, I believe I would be behaving like an ignorant fool if I approached a group of monks, or any other celibate subculture, and told them, "You need to get laid."

Thought this study by the National Science Foundation was interesting. Basically, it shows that herbivores have evolved faster than carnivores and omnivores have evolved slowest of all.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=123870&WT.mc_id=USNSF_51&WT.mc_ev=click