Vegan Forum

I am an ethical vegetarian, and when I am asked why I am vegetarian I say for ethical reasons. Then I find it hard to explain what is the position of vegan ethics.
So here comes the question: What is the best way to explain to somebody the concept of vegan ethics?

Vegan ethics.. hm...
When somebody asks me about why I don't eat animals and wear leather, before I used to answer: Because of ethical reasons. Then I either had to dully explain them what are vegan ethics or the conversation ended because the word ethics for some is too abstract and they were not interested.

Now I just say: For the same reason you don't eat people and wear their skin. That pretty much explains everything, and the guy instantly is in the same boat with me. Whatever he tries to say against me is used against him, but one have to be careful, some may start thinking that eating humans is ok after such a conversation.

AndyBa wrote:Vegan ethics.. hm...
Now I just say: For the same reason you don't eat people and wear their skin. That pretty much explains everything, and the guy instantly is in the same boat with me. Whatever he tries to say against me is used against him, but one have to be careful, some may start thinking that eating humans is ok after such a conversation.

This might be a very nice answer... I can now deeply understand what vegan ethics really is.

Why do you eat vegan food?
Cos it tastes so much better & I like it.

Why are you vegetarian?
For health, ethical, nutritional, environmental & spiritual reasons. - Where do you want to start?

There is another option I have found works very well.
If your asked a question, always ask one back rather than getting into an argument.

"Why are you a vegetarian?"
Reply "good question" Why do you eat meat".
Usually they reply "I was brought up to do so" or "I just do its normal" or "because everyone else does"
I then reply " very interesting, I just started to think about it all & thought it was the right thing to do"

If you avoid the argument mode, & try not to put the other/s into a defensive mode you can get a really good conversation out of it.
If you imagine you are around a dinner table you can keep passing the questions around.
If you get a statement from one person on why they eat meat, ask another person of they agree with that.

its really not about winning an argument or convincing anyone else but usually a few ppl will always say "Ive thought about going vegetarian but don't know where to start" or "Ive got a friend who is veggie & she makes the most fantastic food"

as long as you don't get defensive or preachy most ppl will be quite open to discussing it.

Usually I find the public are very naive about the subject but lately more are aware on the eco reasons to change their diet.
I think more would make the shift if they had friends to show them how to do it.

I was put off the idea many years ago about a friend who never stopped banging on about it & made the decision myself many years later.

hope that helps
G

gibby wrote:There is another option I have found works very well.
If your asked a question, always ask one back rather than getting into an argument.

"Why are you a vegetarian?"
Reply "good question" Why do you eat meat".
Usually they reply "I was brought up to do so" or "I just do its normal" or "because everyone else does"
I then reply " very interesting, I just started to think about it all & thought it was the right thing to do"

Lol.. This is so effective... But being vegan in our place is not a big deal... as they always say, it is freedom You might also invite them on trying it...

I don't know the right way to do this but I know plenty of wrong ways cos I seem to have explored them all...

Firstly, very few people are actually vegan, that is to say: Not Using products that are derived from animals.

If you have ever used any of these products you are not a vegan.

All of these products come from cattle
From the top!
Brain: Anti-aging cream, Medicines

Hooves/Horns: Adhesives, plastics, pet food, plant food, photo film, shampoo and conditioner, lamination, wallpaper, plywood

Blood: Posta, imitation eggs, cake mixes, dyes and inks, adhesives, minerals, medicines, lab research materials

Bones: Refined sugar, charcoal, fertilizer, glass

Internal organs: Instrumental strings, tennis racquet string, hormones, enzymes, vitamins and other medical materials

Milk: Adhesives, plastics, cosmetics, medicines

Hair: air filters, brushes, felt, insulation, plaster, textiles

Skin: Gelatin, flavorings, sheetrock, wallpaper, adhesives, medicines, candies and confectionary
Manure: fertilizer, nitrogen, phosphorous

Fat: Chewing gum, candles, detergents, fabric softener, deoderant, shaving cream, perfume, petfood, cosmetics, creams and lotions, crayons, paint, oils and lubraicants, biodiesel, plastics, waterproofing agents, cement, chalk, explosives, fireworks, matches, fertilizer, antifreeze, insulation, linoleum, rubber, textiles, medicines



Secondly in response to Gibby in order of appearance:
1. I doubt anyone worth answering would ask such a subjective question because they would receive and equally subjective answer.

2. Sounds like a vague dodge attempt to me, not convincing.

3 Why do I eat meat?
Because I can, not in terms of choice, but because it is a readily abundant source of food that my body was made to eat.
Yes that's right, the human body was made to eat meat, it is evidence enough that we physically can eat and digest meat to a successful degree to prove that our body can and arguably should eat meat.

One of the problems with some(possibly most) vegans is that they see discussing their views as an "argument" when it is not, it is discussion. Gibby gives the advice to not be on the defensive, which in terms of an argument logically means you are on the offensive (preachy possibly), this attitude only helps fuel peoples general dislike of vegans for their percievedly contemptuous attitude.

As for AndyBa's answer "For the same reason you don't eat people and wear their skin", this only illustrates that you cannot draw a distinction between lower order animals (cattle for their leather and meat) and higher order animals (US!). This naive attitude does not help your agenda at all as any sane person recognizes that human life far outweighs that of animal life, making your point completely moot.

i don't even bother to try to explain what ethics are and morality is, and how it is i came to be a vegan. that means i would have to explain what compassion and cruelty is, and how barbaric and sadistic the dairy and meat industries are. and there are enough mind-numbingly shocking animal abuse and cruelty videos on the internet and enough vegan and animal rights sites with alot of concise and well explained information that they can draw their own conclusions.

Thank you for not bothering, because if you did would probably have to explain the concept of relativistic ethics and that would be a pain in the bum.

AdamD wrote:Hooves/Horns: Adhesives, plastics, pet food, plant food, photo film, shampoo and conditioner, lamination, wallpaper, plywood

Blood: Posta, imitation eggs, cake mixes, dyes and inks, adhesives, minerals, medicines, lab research materials

Bones: Refined sugar, charcoal, fertilizer, glass

Internal organs: Instrumental strings, tennis racquet string, hormones, enzymes, vitamins and other medical materials

Milk: Adhesives, plastics, cosmetics, medicines

Hair: air filters, brushes, felt, insulation, plaster, textiles

Skin: Gelatin, flavorings, sheetrock, wallpaper, adhesives, medicines, candies and confectionary
Manure: fertilizer, nitrogen, phosphorous

Fat: Chewing gum, candles, detergents, fabric softener, deoderant, shaving cream, perfume, petfood, cosmetics, creams and lotions, crayons, paint, oils and lubraicants, biodiesel, plastics, waterproofing agents, cement, chalk, explosives, fireworks, matches, fertilizer, antifreeze, insulation, linoleum, rubber, textiles, medicines

This is my second day of not eathing any animal products. This new info is a lot to take in. I am adament to start a life where I dont harm other living beings to live myself but this requires a lot more thought. Are there better options for most of these products?

I'm sorry john but the point of that list was to illustrate that it is practically impossible to live a modern life and be a vegan.

I don't recommend it but some form of hermitage may fulfill your peaceful desires.

Yes, there are vegan options for nearly all of these products.
Here are a couple websites to get you started:

http://www.vegproductsguide.com/
http://www.veganessentials.com/ [quote][/quote]

The trucks used to move those products around most likely have leather seats. The product markings use government standard ink which contains animal products. There is no such thing as a vegan.

AdamD, you've built a fine straw person. Veganism is about doing the least harm and I've never met a vegan who does no harm.